Wednesday, October 8, 2008

"That One".......Is This A Racial Issue? Come On Already!

I have never wanted to write about the race baiting going on in this race. I am one who believes that the Republicans have done a horrible job at convincing this voting block that they are voting for the wrong party. Race should not be an issue in this race, but the Democrats continue to make it one.

Before I start getting attacked by the left, let me explain and I will be happy to debate it. Yesterday, the AP claimed that Sarah Palin going after Barack Obama on William Ayers has a racial tinge to her comments. I do not understand how questioning Obama on a white terrorist is racist.

Second, today, two Black Congressman came out against Palin stating that she is being racist on her stump speech. According to the New York Observer:


As the McCain campaign ratchets up the intensity of its attacks on Barack Obama, some black elected officials are calling the tactics desperate, unseemly and racist.

“They are trying to throw out these codes,” said Representative Gregory Meeks, a Democrat from New York.

“He’s ‘not one of us?’” Mr. Meeks said, referring to a comment Sarah Palin made at a campaign rally on Oct. 6 in Florida. “That’s racial. That’s fear. They know they can’t win on the issues, so the last resort they have is race and fear.”

“Racism is alive and well in this country, and McCain and Palin are trying to appeal to that and it’s unfortunate,” said Representative Ed Towns, also from New York.


There are many Americans that have issues with Barack Obama's associations. Does that make all of them racists? Why is the response to the questioning of Obama on almost any issue that you are racist?

Tonight, during the debate, John McCain referred to Barack Obama as "That One". I can't tell you how many comments I have seen that refer to this as racist. Courtesy of ABCnews.com:

McCain's "that one" reference came when the Arizona senator was contrasting his opposition to the 2005 Bush energy bill which was, in McCain's words, "loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies," with Obama's support for the measure.

"You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one," said McCain, gesticulating towards Obama. "You know who voted against it? Me."


Most people probably would not have even noticed the exchange had the Obama camp not emailed every reporter under the sun and suggested that it was the issue of the night. For a campaign that keeps saying it wants to talk about the issues, this seems ridiculous.

I am open to discussion on this issue.

Update: I forgot to mention the ways in which Congressman Barney Frank is now trying to weasel his way out of the housing fiasco. He now blames the GOP for being racist for being against Fannie and Freddie. This man is head deep in this crisis and this is his response to critism. I am not amused and it's getting idiotic.

46 comments:

The New Conservative said...

There they go again! It would be nice to be able to go one day without republicans being labled racist for critizing the messiah.

Anonymous said...

Palin recently followed up her tacky quote of: "there is a place in Hell for women who don't support women" (paraphrased by me, and coined by Madeline Albright) by suggesting that Barack Obama was "palling" around with terrorists. A claim that was debunked repeatedly during the Democratic primaries. So, if the comment is untrue (and it is), why would anyone bring it up again? I mean, why would you make a statement that you know is a lie in a stump speech?

Most liberal and a few conservative pundits believe that the McCain campaign is simply trying to stir up fear amongst the populace by pointing out how different Obama is from them (name, color of his skin, his associations, and even his heritage). While you and I may want to dismiss it, these comments were intended to pick up a point or two from people who are susceptable to this form of rhetoric (racists). Unfortunately, this is a hate tactic, and traditionally considered a form of racism. It has traditionally been very effective in many of the southern states, several of which seem to be sliding in Obama's direction.

It would be my strong desire to believe McCain and company wouldn't stoop to this level, but given the strategies used recently, it is doubtful they missed the connection. Chalk it up as another reason why this voting bloc has such loathing for the Republican Party.

But with that said, I completely understand why many of you would think it was an innocuous comment meant simply to point out a supposed indiscretion. Be proud, you don't think like this, and that says a lot about your character. Unfortunately, not everyone is so unaware. :-(

Anonymous said...

In my last comment, it should have read, not everyone is so decent and unaware.

Anonymous said...

Obama and his scary supporters' view and attack on any and every issue from a racist point of view. It is a crude strategy that is working to shut down any criticism of him. What a bully tactic. Can you imagine how the USA will be to live in for the next 4 years if Obama is elected.

What is even more frightening is his trance-like behavior that many are referring to as 'cool'. He has been trained to act like that to mask an inner hatred and rage

And finally. This came across my desk today about Obama.

The point is not Obama’s “bad judgment;” the point is:
Barack Obama is one of them; He had a:

- communist father

- socialist mother

- communist youth mentor: Frank Marshall Davis

- socialist grandparents

- other radical mentors throughout his entire life: Rev. Wright, Khalid Al-mansour, Ayers, Dohrn, et al.

- ongoing relationship with ACORN, Socialist group from Chicago, and other "hate-America" groups

Barack Obama IS an anti-American, white-folk hating radical who does not need to be anywhere NEAR power!!!!

Anonymous said...

I came back to review my previous post, and came across the note above me. If you had any doubts that those comments were meant to inflame the passions of racism, please accept the above post as proof.

The post did more to support their assertation than anything I could possibly say or do.

-The American Liberal

Stacy said...

The American Liberal-what you don't understand is that people are truly fearful of this man. He came out of no where, it seems nothing brings him down. How many average Americans in Pittsburgh, Columbus, etc. know one curious association let alone the list that we are able to provide for Senator Obama? Do you have any? Probably not.

I was not a Hillary supporter. Yet, I saw how Bill Clinton governed. There would be less fear out there if it had been her.

jay1949 said...

Let me get this straight. If someone refers to Barack Obama as "The One," he or she is an enlightened being with a forward-looking attitude; but if someone refers to Barack Obama as "That One," he or she is a "racist." I suggest that Sen. McCain be permitted to revise his remarks, striking "that one" and substituting "that overweening jackass." That should clarify matters.

Anonymous said...

The American Liberal sees race-baiting ineverything said about Barry. These are just facts about Barry that were listed. Barry went to school in Indonesia under the name Barry Soetoro, he was registered as a Muslim and can still recite Muslim evening prayers, as I, a former Catholic can still recite the Our father, can Barry as a Christain recite that Prayer?? What kind of Grandfather would introduce his Grandson to Frank Marshall Davis to "Mentor" him?? Davis is a COMMUNIST and a sexual pervert, if you want to look at his FBI FILE go to USA Survival News, you can download it, about 100 pages. All of the people in Barry's life hate America, except maybe Tony Rezko, he just wanted to steal from us.

Marion Valentine said...

The Davis Plan, and connections to Obama
While serving in Navy Intelligence from 1958-1967, In 1963 i read the FBI file on Frank Marshal Davis. He had out lined the Communist plan to take over america from within, by installing educators at all levels of our educational system, gaining control of the media, getting Liberal judges appointed, recruiting, training and backing people to be elected to public office. I have researched every piece of legislation i can find that the Liberal democrats have passed since the early sixties, and if you will research for your self you will find that they have been slowly moving this country towards Socialism. When Obama announced he was Running for President, an unknown, with only one major speeech at the DNC that the DNC abd MSM made so much fuss over, aroused my old Intel suspisions, so I started researching. I have not found any evidence to convince me he is a Muslim, but I did find his radical associations were unusual. I found that Frank Marshal Davis who had fled from Chicago to Hawaii in 1958 because of the FBI investigation, met Obama in Hawaii when Obama was 12 years old, and was Obama's mentor from then till Davis died in 1987. Davis put Obama in touch with the Socialist Party in Chicago (called the New Party) which Ayers is also a member of, therefore the first "Planned" contact with Ayres. The New Party helped launch and finance Obama's political Career. Obama.....selected, trained, groomed, and scripted to become the "puppet" leader of the United Socialist States of America

skiafoxmorgan said...

Everyone keeps talking about how scared they are of Obama.

WHAT are you scared of? I mean, really? What exactly is it that scares you? I can list off the things that terrify me about McCain and Palin. What scares you about Obama?

Stacy said...

sklafoxmorgan-If you have ever read my blog before you would know exactly what people are afraid of. I'll summarize for you:
1. Socialism
2. Communism
3. Freedom of Speech
4. Race baiting
5. Tax & Spend with no controls
6. Radical associations of which there are many.
7. Government run anything....ie healthcare
8. Military cuts...civilian army?

Dave H said...

This is exactly what will happen if Obama is elected. All political opposition will be cast as racism. The worst part is that one party will control not only both houses of Congress and the Presidency, but that the media shows no inclination perform its natural role, and instead is committed to carrying water for those who will be in power. Power and the media in bed together means BAD NEWS for American freedom. Truth squads? Get used to it.

Anonymous said...

Smart Girl, et al,

Linked here from RCP, first time visitor.

The McCain camp stated publicly and unequivically that they were going to drive this campaign into the ditch. Part of that strategy is clearly to characterize Obama as an outsider, an alien of some sort, whether it's about his skin color, his social and professional relationships, his educational background or his shoe size. Do you expect the opposition to sit idly by and say nothing about these comments?

At this point, post-debate #2, I would suggest that James Carville got it right last night when he stated "Call in the dogs, piss on the fire, the hunt is over."

The only way the GOP can win this election now is through voter fraud. I'm sure the wheels are turning.

Randy

Stacy said...

RAndy-Welcome to my site. We are happy to have you. I am not opposed to hearing opposite views and you will not be attacked for yours. I would challenge you to provide proof of voter fraud with regards to Republicans in this election. There are currently investigations in at least 10 states where ACORN and Obama supporters are tampering with the election. Could you please give me similar example on the right?

Anonymous said...

"Barack Obama IS an anti-American, white-folk hating radical who does not need to be anywhere NEAR power!!!!"

LOL!!! You guys are great, and you're what makes American a great nation.

This is very funny from an outside perspective. Many Americans have been indoctrinated to have an inherent fear of communism, black people and even liberalism, it would seem. Yet America remains the worlds leading Liberal Democracy...go figure.

I hope Mccain wins - this kind of humour is priceless and I fear Obama might make America seem more tolerant and reasonable; plus we can't afford a strong dollar - I need a great exchange rate!! You must elect Mccain/Palin! The rest of the world needs a weak USA!

We all thought Bush was terrible in the beginning, now we understand he was a genius. In just a single decade he managed to disempower most of the worlds only remaining superpower and render it ineffective for generations to come. In 8 years he achieved what Communism couldn't manage over a century. More of this efficency!!

Palin is the greatest thing to of happened to America for years. I pray that she becomes president one day...soon.

You will always control entertainment. Always.

Anonymous said...

I totally agree with the above comments by some other "anonymous".

The Republicans are so desperate that they are now throwing the sink and whatever they can.

But they keep doing one thing that they have been doing all this campaign: Lie, lie, lie.

Whatever: After giving us the WORST president in American history, George W. Bush (a tremendous liar), they will loose this election badly and deservedly. The only way they could win this one is through voter fraud.

Anonymous said...

Dear Girl,

Thank you for the welcome. Like I said I was just reading comments at Real Clear Politics and a link brought me here.

I have no concrete examples of voter fraud on the right. That comment harkens back to Florida 2000. But my point was that given the polling available for everyone I think there is wide agreement that McCain/Palin need a dramatic development to reverse their fortunes.

Randy

Anonymous said...

I've been pondering the race and while and the sad fact is that all of this to and fro is mere window dressing. The sad fact is that many of our fellow citizens have decided that they want or need the government to solve problems for them, whether those problems are mortgages, healthcare or whatever.

In light of that, many people are quite rationally voting for Obama (although many others are voting against Bush). The sad fact is that we are going to voluntarily give up more and more of our freedoms in the hope of getting help. The help will not come and then we will get anger and requests for more help. The cycle is unlikely to end for quite some time.

I wish someone would stand up and make a principled argument about the role of government in our lives and the simple choices we face. There is no free ride and government help always comes with government control. John McCain could never make that argument in a compelling fashion because he doesn't believe it. Palin may understand it intuitively, but I don't believe she is capable of formulating the choice effectively.

I've now concluded we will all live through the pain of it and some of us won't even notice that the thing we should most value, freedom, is being exchanged like currency for a hope that someone else will take care of us.

I hope I'm wrong...but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

Peace to all

Anonymous said...

As an Independent voter who has voted for both parties, I have no true love for either candidate. During primary season, I wavered and expected that if my choices were Obama or McCain, I may not vote at all in this election. However, I love bitching about politics and felt I would lose my right to do so if I had not voted. To that end, I waited to see who was selected for VP. Palin sealed my decision - I have to vote against McCain. What happened to John McCain over the last 8 years? In 2000 I adored him. I felt like he would be a great president. Instead, we ended up with Bush, and McCain fell in line - Maverick? Please. Furthermore, what a stupid term to coin for yourself. What's the pride in being a cattle thief who screwed over his neighbors?

Anyhow, I was skimming last night on TV and caught the question with That One. I grew up in the south, and as soon as he said that, combined with the finger pointing and the condescending precursor of, "You may never know" to the audience, I winced. I didn't see John McCain from 8 years ago. What I saw was the desperate anger of a 72 year old man who knows he will never achieve what he hoped; a bitter old man pointing at some black guy who stole his spotlight. That one. Maybe it doesn't carry the perception in Arizona that it does in the South, but to me, that was a Biden-sized gaff. And we all know how large that is.

Anonymous said...

I did not watch the debate, I can't handle Obama for long. His irritating arrogance drives me crazy. However, my wife did. She was surprised by Obama's lack of control and his anger. She said McCain was very much in control even when Obama was breaking the rules and attemping to take over the debate due to his inabilit to control himself.

ZombieHero said...

Of course there is racism in the US. It's alive and well thanks to the Democratic Party.

Wasn't it Obama that promised to "transcend" race in this election? Yet wasn't it Obama that brought up not once but twice that the GOP and then specifically McCain was playing the race card? Obama was called out on it and even the MSM had to admit that Obama's claim had no merit. Which is "code" to mean Obama was flat out making crap up.

The comments by Rep Frank, Meeks, etc...don't surprise anyone. They see Obama starting to slip in the polls partly because the relentless attacks on Palin never gained traction and her performance was watched by more Americans than Obama/McCain's debate no 1.
Palin is very very popular with regular Americans. Something the Obama lot can't comprehend since they can't comprehend why anyone wouldn't bow down in praise for "The One."

Even though I am voting McCain, voting GOP for the first time, like a great many of former Dems, part of me really hopes Obama wins.

ACORN was just raided in Las Vegas, for trying to get Tony Romo, Terrel Owens among others, registered to vote. Reports of early voting drives, rounding up the homeless and promising a free meal but only if they vote Obama, voting fraud in Indiana, Ohio, PA, WIsconsin...this is only early voting...imagine the damage pro-Democrat voting groups will do on the 4th!

I hope Obama wins, and falls flat on his face. He will be even worse than Bush...if that is even possible. In the end Pelosi, Reid, Obama and Dean will be disgraced and maybe the Democratic Party will actually start to be a party of the people.

Stacy said...

Randy-I understand the resentment from 2000. As my bio states, I voted for Al Gore myself. I do not challenge Democrats, my family is full of them. I challenge the LEFT. There has to be a middle ground somewhere without giving up individual beliefs.

Many republicans and even conservatives would agree with you on aspects of Bush. I am not happy with him myself. He has not been a conservative in his governing, but that does not mean that the majority of the country wants to swing the pendulum completely to the other side as well. Again, welcome to the site. Honest debate is good for all of us.....hatred to not.

Anonymous said...

I chalenge 15% of the afroamerican bros to find just one thing Mc Cain has done right and vote for him.He will win in a landslide.They support their brother 100% and everybody else is racist.Well America has not seen a thing yet.Wait until hussein wins and realy smell what is cooking.Revenge for the past hundred years.Burning harts.

kanaughty said...

everything is racist to obama camp... we just have to ignore it and realize we aren't racists and neither are mccain or palin. they will try everything they can to eventually incite a race riot by trying to make this into a race-race... when it is not. give me will smith or even colin powell or denzel washington and i would have probably voted for them. at least i know their past and know they could probably do okay being president, but obama is a mystery man with bad bad relationships. how many of us would get denied jobs for having terrorist friends and also we probably would be put on no fly lists for having terrorist friends, but not obama, he is the one, the messiah and everything bounces off him like he is untouchable and that should scare the hell out of all of us. no one should have this much power when we don't know very much about him at all. no one and this is scaring me the paralells to the national socialist movement here... i am scared to death that if the one gets elected i may not be safe in my own home and may be arrested because i don't want to support the one.. this is how much power he has already and how much power his followers have in taking away our rights and freedoms... obama must lose on november 4th or we are all going to have to look over our shoulders everyday cause we will not be safe if we disagree with him...

Anonymous said...

kanaughty,

It intrigues me that you would fear for your safety under an incoming Democratic administration but not under the current GOP administration.
I could be labeled an enemy combatant and my habeous corpus rights would be suspended. I could be whisked away to an undisclosed location and have no recourse but to hope for leniency from my captors.
The Bill Ayers debaukle is a tempest in a teapot. He has been adjudicated. He served his time. He is a free man. There would be no cause to restrict the rights of his friends to travel or run for President for that matter. If he poses a threat to the U.S. he's not hard to find. He's quite out in the open in Chicago. He served on the board of The Annenburg Challenge. Walter Annenburg was as Republican as they come. Friends with Nixon and Reagan. Conservatives also sat on the board with Ayers, are they not patriots?
Of course, perhaps I am too optimistic. The U.S. knew Bin Laden was in Afganistan, yet we invaded Iraq. Perhaps Bush/Cheney/McCain should learn to use Mapquest.

Randy

andi said...

I see the obamabots are all over this posting. I don't know why they are bothering as it appears McCain had left the campaign weeks ago. He has single-handedly lost this election due to his bad choices. No, not single-handedly, he had a whole lot of help from the MSM. He never had a chance. Marion Valentine’s comments exactly mirror my own concerns. I have felt that Ayers has been hatching up this plot for many years. His underground group didn’t give up, it just went further underground and attacked from within. I saw the look on the faces of the parents when their children sang “the Obama song” and realized they were probably brainwashed in college and the “sleepers” are finally coming to the surface; I saw the woman reverently touching Obama’s cheek like he was actually the messiah; I see the Missouri police and prosecutors threatening anti-Obama supporters; I see ACORN intimidating and signing up fraudulent registration; I see the Fairness Doctrine silencing any dissent; but most of all, I see the annihilation of America and the freedom of choice. Do you suppose that this financial crisis has been orchestrated for the purpose of manipulating the people to the other side?

The sad part about all this is when the people finally come out of their comatose state, it will be too late as we will have already lost the 1st and 2nd Amendments and will be well on our way to a socialist country and most likely a police state. We can join the citizens of Iran, Russia, Cuba, et al. Right now, America is a scary place to be.

Anonymous said...

A historical note. I am 54 years old. I was 1A draft status as a university undergraduate during the waning years of the Vietnam War. I saw the cultural upheaval secondary to that conflict first hand. I suspect some of the posters here weren't even alive when the SDS, Weathermen, etc were opposing the war. But I assure you, had the Pentagon burned to the ground following The Weathermen bombing there would have been large numbers of Americans dancing for joy all across the land. I bet you know people my age who had that sentiment and you don't even know it. They live in your community.
I have often wondered where the outrage in our country has gone. Where are the protestors for Iraq?
The right is fond of citing the Second Amendment and talking about how they are "Freedom Loving People with Guns- go ahead, just try and take my rights away." But when Bill Ayres does essentially the same thing in opposition to an unjust war he is labeled "Enemy" and "Domestic Terrorist." At least he had the guts to back up his words with action. I suspect theres not a person reading this here who would risk their comfortable existence to stand up for the principles they religiously espouse. The young people of America today are a bunch of wimps.
Vive la Revolution!

Randy

Stacy said...

Randy-I applaud your service. My father was wounded several times in Vietnam and is a Purple Heart recipient. I have heard him tell stories about how horribly our troops were treated upon their return. I won't pretend to know enough about Vietnam to speak on it, but the answer to internal American disagreement should never be violence against one another. There are other ways to fight back...and your wrong there are many of us angry enough right now to take action.....yet in a civil manner.

Anonymous said...

Smart Girl/Stacy,

You're father is a hero, I'm sure you already know. The troops served with honor, did their job the best they knew how, did not deserve the shameful treatment they received.

I never served. I was in the last lottery drawn. My number never was called to serve. My father was a WW 2 vet. He was preparing me just in case. Guys one year younger went. Not all returned or returned less than whole.

It was a heady time in American history. Passions were high. Right or wrong prople were engaged. And in the south we moved from the struggle for voting rights right into the war.
I may disagree with your politics but I admire your effort. I fear too many have become complacent.

Peace,

Randy

Anonymous said...

Stacy,
I understand that there are a number of people who are fearful of Obama, and to be honest, I do not understand it. He is a man like any other. At the end of the day, you will have to face your fears and judge their validity yourself.

Honestly though, thank you for being engaged, and if Barack is indeed provided the honor and opportunity to serve this great country, it is my sincere hope that you will not lose your faith. We are Americans, and you need to have Faith in Americans who just have a different view.

Honest, we aren't scary, we aren't hateful, and we are not idiots. We are people with families, jobs, bills, and concerns. We have some ideas on how to help our country, and provided a leader who represents something that we feel all Americans need -hope. The Right have mistaken our love affair with this notion with a love affair for the man.

Now compare my statements with some of the others presented here. I am so sick of the hate, and the divisive. Can we not try another path for once?

DB, et al said...

Randy: You are an ass! Having said that, I think you have not presented the facts on Ayers. He didn't spend any time in jail as the FBI screwed up and the evidence was tainted. I understand his wife, however, was incarcerated for a time. Most of the cowards got off scot-free. I think it is telling that you defend a coward that firebombed innocent women and children while they slept. You must be one hell of a judge of character - - too bad you don't have any yourself!

I lived in the time of Vietnam, you didn’t. You were just a wet-nosed kid. My friends and family served in the military because they were drafted and it was their duty. And what did they get for following orders: they had to shed their uniforms before getting off the plane so idiots like you didn’t spit on them and call them names. They went through hell and a lot of them ended up addicted to drugs and committing suicide from their experience and the horrendous treatment they received at home. John McCain was held and tortured for 5-1/2 yrs. in that hell - - did you want to spit on him too? They only did what their country asked of them. Lucky you were so young at the time or you would most likely have defected to Canada - - most cowards did.

You cowards all take your freedom for granted but have sacrificed nothing for it - - you expect others to do it for you. It is far easier to construct firebombs from the safety of your homes and do injury to unsuspecting innocents than to stand up against someone your own size. You and Obama have a lot in common, he has sacrificed nothing either.

Stacy said...

db et al..while I respect your comments. Please refrain from name calling. It is time that someone on one side or another starts to be more open. I don't agree with a lot of the comments that people post on here, but it is still America. Everyone has a right to their opinion whatever that may be.

Anonymous said...

Hi.
Well, it looks like this topic has strayed off course again, and emotions are running high.
My two cents on the Vietnam Conflict, it was an American tragedy. A tragedy that continues to haunt all who were involved nearly forty years later.

McCain was indeed a POW, and insofar as I am concerned he has certainly passed the litmus test for "Hero". This is an element of the tapestry that is McCain, and it says a lot about the character of the man. It should be honored and cherished.

Obama has a compelling life story as well. He is the embodiment of the American Dream and the pursuit of meritocracy. He pulled himself up from poverty through hard work, intellect and tenacity. That should also be honored and cherished.

Both of these men have earned the right to be our candidates for President, and both should be afforded some respect.

One of the ways we do this is by NOT spreading gossip, and lies about either of them. We need to focus on the issues and make a sound decision on who is best capable of resolving our problems.

Our constant bickering and divisive conversations only strengthen and embolden our enemies. We need to stop our hate, and work together to get the job done.

- An American Liberal(and yes I served)

for my husband said...

Anonymous - - -

Please submit tangible facts on Obama's poverty upbringing. From all that I have been able to discover, I have uncovered no evidence of Obama's dire straights. He was raised partially with his grandparents and partially with his step-father; neither of which were on welfare. In Hawaii he went to an exclusive school (my husband worked part-time and went to school part-time at the same age). I have uncovered no records that indicate Obama had any visible means of employment while in his youth (my husband worked from the age of 12 to support his mother). I have not seen any evidence that Obama held 2 or 3 jobs simultaneously so I can only assume he was able to get an outstanding education either from the system or from private donors. My husband truly came from poverty but never once did I hear him complain or use it to his advantage asking for sympathy or commendations. If rising above poverty is a criterion for President, then my husband should be next in line.

db, et al said...

Stacy:

Sorry about that, please accept my apologies - - I guess I got carried away. I spent a lot of time with friends returning from Vietnam and listened to their horror stories and it broke my heart. I have never been an advocate for war but it appears that my wishes, like most Americans, do not enter into consideration. That having been said: I would prefer that my President be a man that knows the horrors of war and does all that he can to prevent others from experiencing the same rather than someone who can talk the talk but has never walked the walk.

Anonymous said...

db et al,

I think if you reread my post you will find that I did live during the Vietnam Era. I was born in 1954.

Technically Ayres may not have served any time but he was adjudicated. I'm sorry the legal system has rules about tainted evidence. Maybe we should just operate under hearsay.

Every community was touched by the war. Mine lost young people in combat or had them return less than whole too.

Interestingly I have worked in mental health for 25 plus years and in that time have seen the horrors of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Was anything learned from the Vietnam experience? Go look at the data on the vulnerability of Iraq/Afganistan vets serving multiple tours of duty and returning to substandard medical care.

db, do you think any innocents were killed when the bunker busters were falling on Baghdad? When we were trying to bomb Laos into the stone age. Laos? We were in Laos? Have you ever read the story of the fire bombing of Dresden in the second world war?

I never spit on a soldier but my "Bucket List" includes spitting on Dick Cheney if I ever get the chance. He, Rumsfeld and their croneys should be tried for war crimes.

Your cowardly friend,

Randy

Anonymous said...

Dear for my husband,

Your comments are so full of bitter emotions that you missed the point of my post.

The hate mongering needs to end, and you, not someone else, needs to learn to rise up to a more Christian ideal.

What has happened to Americans that has inspired so much hateful rhetoric? Is this racism (I sincerely do NOT know)? It is stunning to see so much hate over such trivial matters, when so many other issues should be discussed with equal vehemence.

Shameful.
-An American Liberal

Anonymous said...

Randy,

I am afraid that your insights on falling on deaf ears, but thank you for sharing your thoughts. I for one, enjoyed it immensely.

Chris Rock said something to the effect that he didn't want a President with a "bucket list". I imply nothing, nor take a stand either way, but that comment made me laugh in spite of myself.

Thought I would share the humor.

Warmest regards,

-An American Liberal

db, et al said...

Randy: I have 13 yrs. on you as to perspective. I worked with men (little more than boys really) that had no one to talk to but fellow soldiers; just mentioning they were in Vietnam brought on criticism and ostracizing from outraged citizens through no fault of their own. I worked with a man 10 yrs. out of Vietnam and just hearing the sound of Vietnamese brought on such a violent rampage that it took 10 of us to hold him back. He had thrown a Vietcong out of a helicopter to his death; but no one knew what that Vietcong had done to him. There are always two sides to every story, isn’t there?

If Obama attains the POTUS and does a spectacular job, I will be the first standing in line to congratulate your choice; however, if Obama brings our country down, which so many of us believe that he is capable of doing - - well now, that mistake will be costly to a vast nation of Americans and although it will be your cross to bear it will be our lives at risk. I believe “marionvalentine’s” comments about taking down our country “from the inside” is closest to my opinions. I have scoured David Freddoso’s “The Case Against Barack Obama book and found facts, not fiction, that support my stand and it’s all a matter of public record in Chicago (please feel free to check these facts for yourself).

No one says McCain is perfect, but I am reasonably certain that he is not dangerous. Obama’s past is shrouded in so much mystery and secrecy that I cannot make an informed diagnosis with regard to his motives and agenda. The same gut instinct that has never let me down to-date indicates that although he himself is not particularly dangerous, his associates are. I think of Obama as a talking head and/or suit, malleable and without any real substance but ready to do the bidding of his benefactors.

The Middle-East has been fighting wars for thousands of years and will probably do so for thousands more. Do I think we should have gotten involved in Iraq? No, I do not; but irrelevant as there is nothing we can do to change the past. Do I like Bush? No, I do not (actually, I detest the man). Did I vote for Bush? No, I did not. Personally, I think we should keep our nose out of other countries’ business and accept the fact that the U.S. will always be blamed for any and all genocide or atrocities in the world. Do I blame NAFTA on the loss of our jobs in Pittsburgh? No, I do not - - I blame that on the same greed that made this country great; unfortunately, that same greed is going to take us down. Do I blame the Republicans for our current financial crisis? No, I blame the Democrats http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs and I do not want “more of the same”.

Some may sneer at “joe 6-pack”, but he is the foundation of our society; he is your average middle-class. He goes to work every day, rain or shine, and when he finally gets to relax in front of his TV for the Sunday or Monday night football games with his friends/family he gets rewarded with a beer (not with designer drugs or pot). Thank God for joe 6-pack as he is the very backbone of the United State of America.

I was a loyal Democrat for 47 yrs., but I was never a liberal; perhaps that is the fundamental difference in the way you and I form our opinions. Not your fault or mine - - just the way it is.

not anonymous said...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but - - -

Why is it when someone disagrees with Obama, he/she is “spewing hate”, etc..

Why is it when anyone questions Obama, he/she is “distracting” from the issues. I still don’t know what the issues are since neither candidate has given us much with which to form an educated decision.

You are “bitter” if you do not support Obama. I guess there are a lot of bitter voters out there and the Obama supporters have to infiltrate these sites. Perhaps it originates from Obama’s strategy to find two McCain supporters and encourage them to change their mind and undermine their confidence in the McCain/Palin ticket. I should think it would be obvious by now that when the wind is blowing hard at you, you have a tendency to lean in and resist the pressure.

This is a political arena and not a Christian matter - - if it was, then I would point to the fact that God would be very disappointed in the support of a Party that supports abortion and kills his children. I am pro-choice so forget about coming back at me with some more “bitter, spewing hate, distraction” comments.

There is enough blame to go around with both Parties: I blame Bush for the WMD-Not war and I blame the Democrats for the current financial crisis. It’s a crying shame that out of the whole U.S. of A we don’t have better candidates than these two.

I have been enjoying this site for quite a while and found that most of the posters were people like “Stacy” with regard to her political beliefs; now I find her site being infiltrated by Obama supporters that are not interested in debating her facts/opinions, but are trying to lure Conservative supporters over to their side. I am not a Conservative but find I share most of Stacy’s opinions. I could suggest that Stacy’s group cross over to Obama sites and do the same, but that would make us just as “unbitter” and “unhateful” and “unspewing hate” and would defeat the purpose of this fact-based site. Stacy you are the voice of reason in this storm.

Anonymous said...

Read the comments posted again. Legitimate discussions are encouraged and engaged (like yours). But if you read the majority of the posted comments, you will find a great deal of racism, and hate. I, and others have a problem with that.

If you can not find substantative information on either candidate, I can help you there. What are you looking for? Don't worry, I will give you links for both sides -I am in the business of educating, not creating opinions.

andi said...

Dear Anonymous: I have been following Stacy’s site for many months and have not seen any racism or disrespect - - - until recently. What I have seen are outside influences using the race card to their own advantage. The racist comments are not coming from Stacy’s “regulars” but from outside sources that are determined to make the bloggers here feel guilty for something they are not or have not done. If I say: “Gee, the weather is beautiful this morning”, someone will always find some racial connotation in that, but for the life of me, I don’t know how or why they feel the necessity to spoil a beautiful day.

I have been surfing the net (mostly Democratic sites) and have found all the information I need not to support Obama. I could probably list as many sites pro and con as anyone else could as “My Favorites” for political sites are about a yard long; but I feel it is up to individuals to do their own homework although I appreciate Stacy’s insight and investigation. I do think that it is difficult to get unbiased information from the MSM as I, and others, think they are mostly in the tank for Obama; however, that is their conscience to bear just as my vote will be mine.

My suggestion to anonymous: if you and others do not feel comfortable with this site, perhaps you should find one that meets with your approval and criteria, just as I have, and not put yourself through any further discomfort. My comment by no means sugests that you are not welcome here; it respectfully suggests that you might be happier elsewhere. And if you find hate and racial innuendoes in that, I really do think you are looking for derogatory comments where none exist.

Anonymous said...

Scroll up:

"Barack Obama IS an anti-American, white-folk hating radical who does not need to be anywhere NEAR power!!!!"

or perhaps:

"They support their brother 100% and everybody else is racist.Well America has not seen a thing yet.Wait until hussein wins and realy smell what is cooking.Revenge for the past hundred years.Burning harts."

Is that an example of good conversation and healthy debate? What litmus test are you using that this does not meet the criteria for hate mongering and racism?

I have been here for quite some time too, and only just now have I suggested that the content of this web site postings have crossed the line of good taste. Not all to be sure, and to those folks I have been cordial and engaging. Much like you have been to me, and I to you.

What I do find puzzling is the insistance by some that this is somehow an attempt by me to undermine this site? Or perhaps that I should go elsewhere? I do not understand why you are spending so much effort making me feel as if my point is invalid, but you allow content like above to go unnoticed and unremarked?

From my perspective it was unsettling, and I wrote several pointed comments on it. Stacy, to her credit, did a lot with her latest post to help draw the boundaries in an effort to return this blog to what we all want, a place to exchange ideas.

In all fairness, I vented similar issues about sexism on another site (liberal). The author used some rather obnoxious terms when referring to Gov. Palin, and I found that offensive too. Funny, the liberals on that site berated the hate dealer about the head and shoulders.

I guess it surprised me that the denizens of this site did not.

Marion Valentine said...

October 13
A book never written
My original idea when I started research on the Liberal (Socialist) Democrats and their plan since the 1960's to Move America to a Socialist controlled country, was to write a book. The search of the most liberal democrats in the House and Senate, their bills passed and sponsored, was relatively easy, but time consuming.

Tying in the Socialist Party"s plans, with selecting, training, scripting, and backing persons running for elective office, and the spectacular rise of an unknown, inexperienced, unaccomplished Illinois State Politico, Follows the blueprint of the plan Frank Marshal Davis outlined back in the late 1940's. Scoialists have already taken over our educationals system, and the indoctronation of students has been going on for at least 30 years. The Socialists have almost total control of the MSM, and with Obama in the White House, and a Socialist controlled House and Senate, you can be sure the Fariness Doctrine will be passed, and the First Admendment will be virtually removed, and total control of the media accomplish. Since Socialist control requires a populance that is unable to defend itself, strict gun control will be enforced.

If you don't believe the dishonest Socialists who call themselves Democrats have not been working to control America, and enslave you, make you dependent for your existence on the ruling class who control the wealth and resources, then I hope you enjoy live on the "plantation". I could list every item of my reasearch that led me to this conclusion, and a lot of people would not even believe then, so I say to them, don't take my word, do your own research, if I as computer illiterate as I am can do it anyone with a computer can do it, don't rely on what the media says, go to public records.

Please feel free to go to my site http:/valsword.spaces.live.com and read my other comments on this subject, also feel free to copy, paste and send to whomever you wish. Thanks.
Val

Angela said...

It's not a racial issue any more! Thank God! Black people everywhere can finally put away that race card!

Marion Valentine said...

By: Marion Valentine
March 5, 2009 at 10:14 am
THE GLOBAL GODFATHER

Over the years many have entered the White House as puppets of those who wish to control all the wealth and resources of the world, none succeeded but did help move the ball closer to the goal.
Circumstances were not right, and a crisis could not be “created” that was dire enough to persuade
enough Americans to give up their freedoms to combat the crisis.
Obama is the Communist “Godfather” gone global. Franks, Dodd, Schumer and Durbin “created” the crisis with Fannie/Freddie by blocking every attempt to rein them in from 1998-2006 (it’s in the public records, look it up), Fannie/Freddie crashed in Sept. 2007, taking a few banks and AIG down in the process. The economy had started to adjust and was beginning to show some signs of improvement in Aug. 2008. On Sept 10 2008 McCain pulled 2,2 points ahead of Obama.(RCP national avg Sept.10 2008, McCain 47.4, Obama 45.2) On Sept 11, 2008 there was a 2 hour electronic run on the banks to the tune of 550 Billion, Rep Kanjorski (D) said if the banks had not been closed 5.5 trillion would have been withdrawn and the US economy would have collapsed, and within 24 hrs. the world economy. Thus a “crisis” was created that ensured a win for Obama.
Who but Obama’s Puppetmasters George Soros and the 100+ members of the Democracy Alliance have enough money in money market funds to execute such a run on the banks, and tell George Bush and the World, “Go along with our plan for Global Communist Domination, or we will collapse the world’s economy and create Global chaos.
What will be the next “Created Crisis” that will permit Obama to declare a National Emergency
which will put his Communist Puppetmaster Crime bosses in position to rape the worlds resources and people for their personal gain and power.

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