by: Dr. Dave
Herr Foulwind claims he'll pay $1,000 to Hannity's charity for every second Hannity gets waterboarded. I don't have the stomach to post his stupid rant here, but if you want to listen to him whine, be my guest.
I'd like to up the challenge. Olbermann, I'll get waterboarded, and you can donate the proceeds to my favorite cause: Tie Keith Olbermann Down Among Mexican Pigs With Swine Flu.
But I have one condition: While I do it, you have to sit in the window of a building, strapped to a chair, while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed flies an airplane at you.
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30 comments:
Here is a thought, do you think the Vietnamese during the Vietnam war thought that torturing American soldiers would glean them helpful strategic information that would help reduce their own casualties?
So here is a thought, why don't you go up to a Vietnam POW and explain to him how the Vietnamese were justified in torturing him, and see what happens to you and your absurd morally bankrupt thought process.
At the conclusion of WW2 Japanese torturers were tried and convicted for water boarding people. As McCain so clearly explained to everyone who would listen, these soldiers were either given ten years hard time or death for these crimes by an American Tribunal.
As to the argument put forth by the Republican pundits on Fox News (Propaganda and Stupidity served 24/7) why do you have to choose between your children and torture? You think bypassing our laws to protect against another 9/11 is a good idea, even though it creates more terrorists? Why don't we torture Bartenders and car dealership owners? More people die from car and alcohol related accidents than were ever killed by war let alone terrorist actions. How about gun manufacturers? Should we torture them to get the names of people who own guns?
Where does it end? How about it doesn't even start. We are a nation of laws and despite the comments herein, our politicians do NOT have a right to suspend the constitutions or our laws to fulfill their own agenda. It is a criminal act and those responsible whether Democrat or Republican need to face the consequences of their actions.
As to you folks who dare support torture - shame on you and your ignorance. This is not a political debate, this is a matter of law.
Peace.
Rick Beagle
Thanks for the extended comments, Rick. I dare say, you should have a seat next to Mr. Olbermann some time. I'm betting you two are dead ringers for one another.
I wouldn't worry too much, if I were you. I'm pretty sure Janet Napolitano will soon be changing the focus of the entire intelligence community from torturing known terrorists who want you dead simply because you don't practice their twisted brand of Islam to torturing me for exercising my 1st Amendment rights.
It's such a great country we used to live in, Mein Herr.
Dr. Dave,
This is a great country, it is too bad that you are so full of hate and lies to see it.
Maybe a walk through a park would do you some good, or perhaps going to a veterans center and chatting them up.
There are a lot of ways to get involved in your community to help make America better than she was before.
Just give it a try...
Peace.
Rick Beagle
Mr. Beagle:
I'll do you one better. Why don't you give up a few years of your life and freedoms in the service of your country? The armed services, that is, not the Obama Youth.
I already have. I've already kept your precious sentiments safe. As I tell all of my socialist friends: "I've already defended your rights; just keep your greedy hands off of mine."
I've already walked with generations of veterans, in my own family (dating back to WW I), in my own neighborhood, in my time and in their time. And I guarantee you every one of them would have waterboarded...or worse...anyone plotting to kill any American, even you, if it meant saving lives.
Now...if you'll excuse me, I have a caterpillar I want to place on your pillow. I hope it doesn't frighten you too much. Sweet dreams.
BTW: You can't change me, and I can't change you. If you haven't learned that yet, you need to go to Spain and tilt at windmills.
You must have missed the part where I said I was a veteran and a part of a military family.
Nice try, but I did serve, and I served honorably.
Unlike you, it would seem.
Yeah, I can sleep with a bug, but you have to sleep with your dishonor. Dishonor that will stain those that come after you in unneeded blood.
You should be ashamed.
Rick Beagle
Good grief, at least get your story straight before you go wishing death on people, Dr. Dave.
Olbermann didn't "challenge Hannity to undergo waterboarding" -- it was Hannity himself who bragged to Charles Grodin that he would agree to be waterboarded for charity. (You can find clips of him saying it posted all over the Internet.) All Olbermann did was call his bluff!
We know Keith is good for the $1000/sec. The question is, can Hannity make good on his boast!
You believe in torturing people?
Wow, do we remember the spainish inquisition? Do you believe all those people that confessed to being witches, actually were? Or maybe they were just saying that so they wouldn't be tortured anymore.
If I twist you arm and ask you who won the world series in 1949, would you give me an accurate answer or would you make something up so I would let go of your arm?
Wow Dr. Dave, you smacked the moonbat cage and got them to spout all the little catchphrases.
-Torture
-Fox bashing
-Inquisition
-Comparisons to Japanese/Vietnamese torture.
-Blathering about how "Constitutional" something is (without siting the relevant section as evidence)
Good work. I did not know Code Pink/Getoverit.org/ANSWER monitored comment sections so closely.
Cdat88: If the blog begins with a lie (see my previous post), you want to see how many people caught that detail, versus how many tried to pretend it was about something -- anything -- else.
That was why I read the comments for this one.
@Lena Oh quit complaining. The sentences are merely out of order. I've fixed it, for your value's sake. You may proceed with your talking points.
Dr. Dave, you know you made the unpardonable sin of questioning decisions and closely held beliefs of the unhinged left. Anything that is held by the Bush administration is here for and forever after evil. No matter what intel it gathered, lives it saved, or the fact that waterboarding leaves no, I repeat, no lasting effects is immaterial. The Obamasseiah has spoken, and all his zombie minions must move in lockstep towards the utopia he will bring.
And before you crazies start screaming about how do I know what effects a waterboarding has, I have been waterboarded! Yes, I have, and I survived. Imagine that. It is a brain game, a simulated drowning that breaks your will to resist questioning. No after effects, and no pain.
IT IS NOT TORTURE!
Dictionary.com
Torture
1.The act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2.A method of inflicting such pain.
@Cdat88 Yes, I know. I'm so ashamed! I should should be waterboarded...or subjected to listening to Hilary laugh or b. Hussein speak without TOTUS.
Dave: You forgot to mention that Olbermann plans to keep renewing his offer until Hannity accepts -- or slinks away with his tail between his legs. Was Hannity serious or just talking big? The coming days will tell.
Meanwhile, I clicked your link to that petition. I see it's been up since Nov. 1, 2008 and has (whoa!) 624 sigs. That's about 125/mo. I bet one of them is Keith's -- remember, he signed O'Reilly's petition on the air when Billo was campaigning to have Donahue replace him!
And finally, Dave, the flying into a building thing? It's in pretty bad taste. The terrorist attack took away some people Olbermann knew -- one reason he didn't appreciate the Bush administration playing politics with 9/11. I didn't lose anyone in the attack, but still, politicizing it doesn't do much for me either.
But-- it's your blog. And I'm sure there will be people who will come to your defense.
Cdat,
Doesn't really matter what noise you make up, the law, and more importantly, historical precedents have already been set on this one - what the US did (including water boarding) was torture. Feel free to check out Glenn Greenwald or dozens of other sites for information on how the constitution was violated, which treatise, and which laws. This award winning, former constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York breaks down the information in great detail.
Whomever was responsible for this will be held accountable, and those of you who still somehow support torture, I can not fathom your position. Men, women, and children were raped, tortured and killed in our name and you refuse to acknowledge it even when there is photographic proof already in the mainstream (more on the way).
As to the claims that torture produced information that prevented a terrorist act, this has already been debunked. The person responsible for providing this information was tortured two years after we caught and broke up the terrorist act. But if there are more, please by all means show us why we had our collective soul sold?
I suspect that we will discover -as has been widely suggested- that these tortures were meant to find a connection between the 9/11 attack and Iraq. A country they already wanted to attack, but could not find justification for it.
Peace.
Rick Beagle
I linked to his rant, Lena. Blog posts don't always have to list every little fact ad naseum. This isn't the news. It's an opinion forum.
Nothing is in "bad taste" if you understand the ludicrousness of the suggestion. It's called hyperbole. It's a time-honored technique, and, as far as I'm concerned, is easily the must under-appreciated form of writing.
Suspend your sensitivity. The world's a better place when we lighten the heck up.
Oh, c'mon Hannity. What a publicity stunt! Are your ratings that bad? They probably are now that you are headlining your own show. As if what they will do to you will be one tenth of what is actually done. I am a conservative. I watch Fox all the time. I am hoping Glenn Beck will soon replace Hannity's time slot. I don't think Hannity even has his own opinions anymore.
I don't agree with this torture. We are America. We should be setting the example - beyond reproach.
Hannity doesn't need to do publicity stunts to improve his ratings...Fox already has the highest ratings. Olbermann's ratings are in the toilet...maybe that's why he's panicking. Maybe he should change his wig to help attract more viewers.
"It's unacceptable. It's unacceptable. One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us... The image of the United States of America throughout the world is a recruiting tool for Islamic extremists."
- John McCain, April 20, 2009.
"... there is no place for abuse in what must be considered the family of man. There is no place for torture and arbitrary detention. There is no place for forced confessions.
The roots of American rule of law go back more than 700 years, to the signing of the Magna Carta. The foundation of American values, therefore, is not a passing priority or a temporary trend."
Newt Gingrich OCTOBER 30, 1997
"Rove and Cheney are clearly counting on some sort of attack to vindicate their poor decisions. The far right in general is hoping for an epic failure of some sort for the Obama administration to justify their continued existence. All seem to be depravedly indifferent to the fact any failure on this administrations part or attack on the country will undoubtedly cost American lives. The very lives they purport to cherish and claimed to have saved through their twisted actions. Rove, Cheney and their disciples are nothing more than self-serving supporters of an arcane cast society bent on maintaining "their" way of life."
Agreed.
Rick Beagle
Cdat,
Doesn't really matter what noise you make up,
So says a coward who will not even make up a screen name...
And for the record, it is not made up. Rangers (among others) are instructed in interrogation resistance. Among those instructions is expose to non damaging forms. i.e. waterboarding.
As to the Constitutional violations, care to site the relevant section pertaining to interrogation of non-citizens taken on a foreign battlefield? Please enlighten me. You yourself, not a website. Your words.
Imagine my surprise when I read these comments and found Rick Beagle, of all people, citing McCain and Gingrich. It was just as I suspected. If we conservatives agree with you on any given issue, we're worthy, if we do not, we're just reciting talking points. How many other quotes of either of these men would you proudly display in everyday conversation?
I would like to take a page from your style of debate and use your words as an example to make my point.
"Yeah, I can sleep with a bug, but you have to sleep with your dishonor. Dishonor that will stain those that come after you in unneeded blood.
You should be ashamed."
I agree, you SHOULD be ashamed. You spewing forth the proabortion talking points does nothing but stain your soul with those that come after you in unneeded blood.
So is it safe to assume that, by your definition, our military "tortures" our own soldiers when they are in training? No, no, of course not, it's only torture when it happens to terrorists. Our guys are fair game, huh? You keep telling yourself that.
Natalie,
You are a one trick pony, and the only reason you are "outraged" at me is due to my Pro-Choice stance. John McCain was savagely tortured in Vietnam, and on this matter, I respectfully listen to his opinion (which I happen to agree with). Newt is a party leader, and quoting him helps drive home the point that this is not a political fight but a matter of law.
Cdat,
I get the sense that you think this is some sort of game between political philosophies. You are relishing the fight rather than stopping to understand the horror of what exactly you support.
I have already provided you with enough information to determine the criminality of torture and the many hues of abuse that have been conducted. Here is a link to Glenn Greenwald. He is the civil rights and constitutional lawyer to which I referred earlier. His understanding of the law far surpasses mine and should provide you with enough information to determine specifically how and why torture is illegal.
Peace.
Rick Beagle
The horror I support? Oh please. Lose the drama queen attitude. If someone who has survived some of the harshest training the US government can dish out is not having a problem with it, then maybe you need to get with the program.
As I said, I do not want someone else words. You site, for me, the relevant section of the Constitution that forbids waterboarding. Otherwise, you are just talking to hear yourself. Make your own arguments. Maybe I am from Missouri.I have been under that treatment, I call bull on it as torture. Can you and your friend Mr. Greenwald say the same? Can you address that fact? By your thinking, I should sue Walter Reed for teaching me to walk again because it hurt? Because I felt stress? Man, I feel for the US now that whiny libs are running the show.
Cdat,
ROFL?! You think this is a question of "manhood"? You keep overcompensating there bud, hope it works out for you. Thank you for showing, quit clearly, the abject stupidity of the conservative movement.
In short, go away knuckle dragger the adults are in charge now.
Rick Beagle
It is so disturbing that this whole discussion of waterboarding has evolved into such idiocy. The left uses the obviously incendiary word TORTURE to inflame the discussion and get on their usual high horse.
All the while the Obama administration masterfully threw a red herring so we would stop noticing the real problems and what they are proposing and doing. Brilliant way to keep the masses from discussing what we really need to talking about.
Cdat,
ROFL?! You think this is a question of "manhood"? You keep overcompensating there bud, hope it works out for you. Thank you for showing, quit clearly, the abject stupidity of the conservative movement.
In short, go away knuckle dragger the adults are in charge now.
Rick Beagle
So now I am a stupid knuckle dragger? That is an adult response? As to my manhood being in question, I am not sure where that comes from, other than your personal projection. I have no questions on that area. As for stupid, maybe compared to some, but at least when I am asked to prove a point, I do not resort to personal insults.
In case you forgot, I will ask again, can you site, for me, the relevant section of the Constitution that forbids waterboarding. You brought up the issue, so prove it, not with a link to another site, but in your own words. Without using an insult or personal attack. You know, like an adult.
Also, can you explain how I am a knuckle dragger? Again, without insults. Is it my time in the service? My refusal to cave to world opinion but instead to follow the founding documents of this nation? What part specifically? As to the adults being in charge, I will agree when I see one.
Cdat,
Perhaps you need to reread your own posts a bit more closely. You assertion that you do not resort to personal attacks is blatantly and patently false.
I have already referred you to an expert on constitutional law for your answers, why do you insist that I provide it for you when a better more informed source exists? What about reading an experts opinion bothers you so?
As for you being a knuckle dragger, I base this on two criteria - 1) your view is not determined by a conscience, but by your perceived machoism; and 2) your insistence on reiterating patently obvious falsehood even when confronted with factual content.
As an example, your insistence that torture is not torture because you lived through it, and that torture was justified because it saved lives. Mull that stance over a bit, and you start to see how absurd your beliefs are. On the one hand it isn't torture but even if we did, it was legal because we got sign off from the Justice Department, and their views were justified because it kept us safe (whew). It's like arguing with the eight ball and its assortment of random answers.
You do know that the military already punished several people connected to torture right? They were declared "bad apples" while the President went on the air and declared (I am paraphrasing), "we don't torture."
You also have heard of Nuremberg trials right? Perhaps you have read or heard what happened to Senator and Presidential candidate John McCain?
How can you sit there, look at all the evidence and support torture? Of course whipping out your penis to declare how you have actually been water boarded and it isn't that bad just adds to the nut cake.
As to your absurd notion that writing style be restrained by my comment that the "adults are in charge"? Are you inferring that I believe myself to be in charge? Let me see if I can help you with that -soldier, I work for a living. That clear it up for you?
Quit excusing the civilian jackasses (who never served) who dishonored our military.
Peace.
Rick Beagle
Yawn.
Beagle. You are a bore. You regurgitate the same talking points, and continue to use personal insults and your strange infatuation with my "manhood" specifically my penis, leads me to worry about you. The fact that you can equate what happen to Senator McCain with having a bit of water poured on your head shows you have no concept what the technique consists of. I do not claim it is not torture because I lived through it, I claim it based on the definition of torture. You have ceased to be of any relevance, and your need to bring up comparisons between the US enhanced interrogations and the criminals that were on trial at Nuremberg just proves you are nothing but a barking moonbat.
You lost this round when you began to use insults. Face it. Talk all you ant, I will not waste any more time on responses. I too "work for a living."
It seems the bigger issue at this moment is whether the administration should open investigations, hold hearings and prosecute those who were involved in decisions to waterboard. We can approve of or deeply dislike the technique, and we must hold a civil discussion on that issue for future decision making. But, at this moment, that is not the issue. We should look at the environment of the time when these decisions were made, and understand that the decisions were not made in isolation. Leaders of our country were a part of these decisions and they were given briefings as to outcomes. The climate of the time held widespread fear and a conviction that another attack was imminent.
The second guessing now makes the current administration and legislature appear weak and ineffectual. Or perhaps that they are deflecting attention from their socialistic goals. Or surely not - could they be indulging in retribution for the investigations into Clinton's fiascos?
At any rate, to go down this road in the midst of our country's enormous challenges does not present a desire to create a cohesive government, or a true desire to work for the betterment of our country.
Cdat,
LOL! Nice try, now go back to your hole.... Couldn't be that your position is indefensible?
BKR,
I will gladly admit that there are many people on the left who are using the "torture" issue for political payback, but that belies the fact that we, on the left have been trying to get this out into the mainstream for years. We have been to court numerous times, and finally, we got what we knew to be true revealed.
Now we want to see justice done. If there are reasons to justify our actions, then that is why we have a judicial system. No one is above the law, and quite frankly people need to be held accountable for their actions.
Peace.
Rick Beagle
To anyone in the military who has voluntarily undergone waterboarding, survived, and thus declares it not to be torture:
What part of VOLUNTARY versus CAPTIVE don't you understand? You knew you could call it off. You knew they weren't allowed to let you die (even if they didn't like you) because they already had thousands of dollars invested in you and considered you a valuable asset. And you knew where you were.
In contrast, the above description does not apply to prisoners. They have no control over what happens to them, where it will take place or how long it will last. They also know they're in the hands of people who could easily say "whoops, oh dear, looks like we went too far. Oh well, another brain damaged/dead subject" -- and dump you on the pile with the others. (A prisoner did die at Abu Ghraib.)
So if you were waterboarded on your own say-so, you STILL have no concept of what the experience is like for a prisoner.
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