Friday, November 28, 2008

If Our Country Removes God, Do We Lose Our Country?

We have all heard those stories from our grandparents about how much they used to pay for this or that.  The favorite stories are the ones when they would talk about how far they used to walk to get here or there.  I look at those stories now with such envy.  Of course, when your a seven year old and your mom is making you listen to some old person tell you something, you could care less.

As we start to age ourselves, it's strange how often you begin to look back on your own past. How far you go back depends on how far to your favorite memories.  Do you go back to your childhood and playing outside with your friends?  Do you go back to the times you spent the holidays with your family and those traditions you remember so well?  Do you go onto Facebook and look for friends from high school or college?

It seems like if you are at that point in your life that you can look back to something that you are old enough to realize how much things have really changed.  When did our society lose it's innocence?  It would be frightening to do some of the things today that we did back then.

Could you imagine leaving your doors unlocked and your windows wide open?  What would happen if you let your children play around the neighborhood the entire day only to come home for dinner?  Would you let your pre-teen go to the mall and hang out with friends alone?  

I look back on my childhood and I don't remember terrorism.  It may have been happening, but it wasn't something that as a child you were aware.  I know that was not the case during the cold war, but I'm not quite that old.  Today, children are too aware of what is going on in the world.  They are bombarded with bad news via television, the Internet, or even from friends at school.

When I went outside to play with my friends, my mom didn't have to worry that a pedophile was going to abduct me.  I know that the media plays up a lot of these issues, but they are happening.  The fears are real, not imagined.

What has changed in our country that has brought us to the point of greed, promiscuity, hate, and a complete lack of respect of others?  It could be just a coincidence, but it seems like the further away from God, whichever God that is for you, the further away we get from being a civilized society.

I have to admit, while I consider myself Catholic, I am far from a practicing one.  I do try to live my life as a Catholic.  I teach my children what is right and what is wrong.  Yet it feels like the further our country as a whole moves away from God, the further we move away from a civilized country.

Each piece of God that is taken out of our society leads us one step further into moral demise. No more God in school, but yet kids can pray who wins American Idol.  No more prayers in public places, yet people can protest with hatred and vulgarity against a war.  No more Christmas plays or Christmas parades, but people will crush a man to death to get a flat screen TV on sale.

What kind of memories will our children have to look back on if this trend continues?  How far back will their favorite memories be hidden?  Is it so wrong to say a little prayer to keep someone safe, or to hope that someone gets better?  Is it so wrong to hope that we are safe from harm and that our children have nothing to fear?

What is next?  Removing "In God We Trust"?  Taking the Christmas out of Christmas?  I really do fear where we are headed.  And this is coming from someone who doesn't go to Church..........but should!


SarahB said...

I'm a straight-up, raised-by-hippies Agnostic, but I think protecting religion and God in the context of this nation and it's history are vitally, vitally important. I'm actually putting a cross up on our house this Christmas just to defend the fact that it is all about the Birth of Jesus Christ...if we don't defend religion, we all lose the fundamentals of freedom.

doctorwifemom said...

In this time of economic woe, it is a perfect time to reclaim the true meaning of Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Christ as a gift to all mankind. This could be the year that we teach our children and remind the adults in our families that this is the season of giving rather than receiving. This could be the year that we create a memory that becomes one of those things that we look back on when we are growing old as one of the memorable times in our lives. Random acts of kindness are not expensive and gifts from the heart are recession proof. Perhaps this is the year that we put Christ back into Christmas!

Anonymous said...

Another interesting phenomenon is the minute we took God out of our schools, our kids got dumber. Back in the day of the founding fathers people were far more literate and educated then they are today. This was despite the complete lack of free public schools. When Thomas Paine wrote "Common Sense" he wrote it for the common man, in a language he could understand. Nowadays, most graduating seniors couldn't understand or analyze the words and concepts of Thomas Paine.

By eliminating God, we have eliminated the source from which all knowledge comes. Why liberals have such a hard time understanding that I will never know. Oh by the way Sarah I too was raised up by hippie, Agnostic parents. And now I am a Mormon-bet they didn't see that one coming! LOL

CKAinRedStateUSA said...

Interesting question. To it: Yes.

We already see that, don't we? Have since prayer was taken out of school. Have since Roe v. Wade.

But, IMO as a Christian, those are not the only places we've allowed God to be kicked out of the public square.

The other is how the Bill of Rights is being interpreted through the fear, small-mindedness, intellectual dishonesty and intolerance of the insane political correctness that besets America.

The foul-smelling but prevailing PC wind seems to be that the First Amendment means freedom of religion, except when it comes to mentioning Christianity, the Bible, Christ Jesus, Christmas and more.

That is not what the Founding Fathers meant.

And even if someone is not a Christian, they should support the full application of the First Amendment to ALL Americans. That's because if the attempts continue to silence Christians, who'll be next? And why?

What follows below the first dashed line is a single comment on something I wrote at American Sentinel in a post comparing Obama's presidential-elect Thanksgiving message and Lincoln's Oct. 1863 Thanksgiving Proclamation.

BTW: If you read that piece, you'll see that God was still very much a part of Lincoln's life and the life of America.

But if you read Obama's piece, you see that not once did he mention God or being thankful to God.

BTW, SGP: I pray that you get to church.

But I also pray that you know that just going to church doesn't mean anything without a real relationship with Christ Jesus.

Thanks for your post.

May God bless you.

BTW: The poster of the lengthy comment that follows, Michael Eden, who also writes at AS, is a Christian.

One final BTW: The religion to which these historical remarks refer presumably is Christianity, either Protestant or Catholic flavor.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On Religious Clauses in State Constitutions, proving that religion, Christianity, the Bible, and our Founding Father's understanding of the Constitution are entirely compatible:

Early charters and compacts that provided the Christian religious foundation for our government:


Statements of our Founding Fathers (who presumably understood what the Constitution that they wrote and ratified meant better than Ruth Bader Ginsberg):

“We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
- John Adams

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion…reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
- George Washington, Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and happiness.”
- Samuel Adams, Letter to John Trumbull, October 16, 1778

“The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor…and this alone, that renders us invincible.”
- Patrick Henry, Letter to Archibald Blair, January 8, 1789

“Without morals, a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion…are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.”
- Charles Carroll (signer of the Constitution), Letter to James McHenry,November 4, 1800

“Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.”
- Life of Gouverneur Morris, Vol III

“Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity…in short of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.“
- Samuel Adams, Letter to John Adams, October 4, 1790

“In contemplating the political institutions of the United States, I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes, and take so little pains to prevent them. We profess to be republicans and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government. That is, the universal
education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible.”
- Benjamin Rush, “A Defense of the Use of the Bible as a School Book”, 1798

“In my view, the Christian Religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed…no truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian Religion must be the basis of any government intended to
secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
- Noah Webster, Reply to David McClure, Oct. 25, 1836

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports…In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens…”
- George Washington, Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand.”
- John Adams, Letter of June 21, 1776


We also find out that 106 of the first 108 universities founded in the United States were founded as Christian institutions dedicated to the Bible and the spread of the Gospel. And quite a few of these were state institutions. We also find that the Bible was literally the first textbook

And we learn that our founding fathers - and those who came before our founding fathers, and those who came after them, all believed in religon as a basis for morality and education:

“Let every student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life (John 17:3) and therefore lay Christ at the bottom, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning.”
- Harvard’s Rules and Precepts, 1636

Example #2:
“…if the study of the Bible is to be excluded from all state schools; if the inculcation of
the principles of Christianity is to have no place in the daily program; if the worship
of God is to form no part of the general exercises of these public elementary schools;
then the good of the state would be better served by restoring all schools to church control.”
- National Education Association, 1892

Example #3:
Article III. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the
happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever by encouraged.
- July 13, 1787

Example #4:
“Cursed is all learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ”
- Princeton’s Founding Statement, 1746

- - - - - - - -- - - - -

Grace Explosion said...

I see a very civic and community minded person serving her nation, serving her community, and serving God on this blog from a heart that truly cares... and that seems very Christian to me. (But it's wonderful to go to church also especially to bless others... as you bless us here. :) )

I take a very practical view... and a hardline. God WAS removed from our country on November 4,2008. I do not believe this nation will avert the judgment of God. Very simply, God is saying, "OK, hands off." He's stepping back out of the way so man can have man's ways.

There goes the blessing of God. There goes the protection of God. There goes this nation.

I don't believe it will ever come back in the form it was prior to this fall from grace. If anyone says Obama is a Christian, then GM workers are Pontiacs. They're not.
They just go to a building... it doesn't make them an automobile themselves just because they make cars there.

Things are not going to get better. They are going to get worse for this nation.

It's going to require an exodus.

America still had a blessing from God on her at a certain level that had been lifting, lifting, lifting, lifting the more God was removed.

But now, it's over.

The Christians in America have individual blessing from God.

The corporate blessing of God over this nation is lifting completely off on Inauguration Day, imo.

God will be speaking to the hearts of Christians.

We're going to see incredible things in this nation. It's not the same nation it was on November 3, 2008.

God will speak more clearly to Christians. Christians hear from the Lord, but sometimes only faintly and other times clearly. We will all hear the Lord more clearly, and things will become more clear, imo.

I think the US is going to be nuked in the future. I think all hell is going to break loose. I think we're going to have a nation outside of God... and the horror of all the abortions and everything else is going to come down hard.

Cause and effect. A boomerang effect. God stepping back... and America, in the void, giving HERSELF over to Satan for destruction.

She did it to herself. God cannot be faulted. Man wanted his own way... and he won't have God's protection or that covering God provides to a nation under Him.

We stepped outside the protective covering of God... and we're left to the destroyer at a national level corporately as a nation.

God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man sows he reaps. It's law. It's cause and effect... It's not God "lashing out"... it's man doing himself in separated from God and quite naturally "leaning in" to the bosom of Satan. Satan has no mercy... where he gains power...and allegiance...and control over a nation to destroy it.


Wish I had better news about this current nation... but God will speak to Christians and they will come to realize the action they must take to come back under God as a nation.

That's what I believe I hear from the Lord personally and has become my opinion.


Mel said...

I believe you are right on...the more we move away from God, the further we are removed from moral and ethics...we descend into chaos.

Eva said...

Reading over most of the comments on this page I have yet to read the true reason why God and Christmas have been virtually eliminated from every facet of our lives over the last decade or so:


Regardless of what religion you ascribe to, most of us still believe in a God or higher entity; as most of the world does. Why is it then that we let a few people dictate to us what we are allowed to do? Why have we let them take away our individual faith for political correctness? I have that answer:


I’m sure that somewhere in their past they have done some good, but it seems like they are always working against the wishes of the majority. They appear to always be defending criminals’ rights when circumstances prove they are guilty; they try to overturn capital punishment for Jack the Ripper’s when they turn their backs on the unjustly accused:


Methinks they are a group of arrogant lawyers trying to prove to the rest of the world that they are more intelligent than the majority of the people and tenaciously set out to prove it by undermining the very foundation of our faith and constitution. They are living proof that:


CKAinRedStateUSA said...

Respectfully, EVa, this has happened, IMO, because we who should've cared, did nothing.

We've only ourselves, perhaps our parents, to blame for letting that minority of which you speak, rule.

Complacency drove God from the public square.

But, then, maybe that's what's been needed to see how important He is to us.

IF we care enough, and are committed enough, we can bring Him back.

But it won't be easy, given we're in the anti-Christian era in America and the world.

Matt Henderson said...

This discussion is driving me crazy.

If we have God in the public square or in the public school, whose God? Whose values? Whose interpretation? Whose rituals?

In case you've forgotten, there's that part of the First amendment which states "Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion." You are free to believe and (to a significant extent) to practice whatever religious beliefs you like, but to mix God and Government has always been a bad idea. We don't proclaim public atheism. It's not that. It's that government shouldn't be endorsing certain religious viewpoints and making anyone feel like an outsider on the basis of their religious belief or nonbelief.

We were founded as a secular nation with a strong separation of church and state. Many of the founders would be appalled to hear you suggest that we are a "Christian Nation" (it specifically says that we are NOT a christian nation in the Treaty of Tripoli - go read it). They also saw fit to put that article in there about no religious test being required for public office.

It is ironic that you cite Thomas Paine because he was PASSIONATELY, VIRULENTLY anti-christian.

The ACLU is protecting your rights. I'm sorry that you're too clouded by self-righteousness to understand that.

Kids didn't get dumber when the Supreme Court ruled that you shouldn't be praying in public schools. In fact, atheists and agnostics are generally among the most intelligent people you'll ever meet. Of course, many of you probably have no friends or acquaintances that are agnostic/atheist or gay or muslim, so it's easy for you to hate on them. Studies consistently show an inverse correlation between education and religiosity. The more educated and the more intelligent you are, the less likely you are to believe in a god.

If you use your brain, you can easily see that there's no more reason to believe in your god than there is in the gods of ancient greece or egypt, or in ghosts or goblins or angels or fairies, or leprechauns, or zombies or astrology or esp or santa claus or the like. Of course, you probably do believe in some of those things because of your natural ignorance and superstitiousness. Belief in god is a superstition. The same kind of superstition that leads you to believe in other superstitious things.

I am not a Christian for the same reasons that you are not a muslim or a hindu or a servant of zeus or poseidon.

Mel said, "he further we are removed from moral and ethics...we descend into chaos." That is bullshit. You don't need god to act morally. If you do, I feel sorry for you. If the only reason you behave yourself is because the great security camera in the sky is watching you, then you're the kind of dumb person who they invented heaven and hell for. But look.. you read the bible and say yeah those are good rules to live by. In other words, you already have moral intuitions about what's good and what's bad. You don't take the bible so seriously when it says that you should stone people to death. Or to beat your children, do you. You find ways to explain away those parts. Look at secular societies in europe and scandinavia. They get along just fine without god. In fact, America with all its christuan god belief is MORE dysfunctional in many many ways than the advanced democracies of western europe.

I'll end this rant, but I had to present this perspective. Church and state ought to be kept separate because to mix them is dangerous. It is the first step toward oppression of those who do not subscribe to some orthodoxy. You are free to do all the worshipping you want as an individual. I don't see why you must insist that others must be subjected to your particular religious iconography or beliefs. Seems rather insecure actually.
So it's not a "sign of the times." It's a mature respect for the fact that we live in a diverse society with people of many different beliefs and of no belief at all. If there's anything that's anti-american, it's YOUR insistence that America is for persons of your particular christian denomination only and that others are not welcome.

Kimn said...

You nailed it. This piece moved me deeply, because of the truth it explores. Thank you for posting it.

Becky Sue said...

I have very similar feelings and opinions. I was raised in a very strict Lutheran church and rebelled, so I struggle with attendance. I do appreciate what CK said "But I also pray that you know that just going to church doesn't mean anything without a real relationship with Christ Jesus." I feel/struggle with this - so it oddly encourages me.

Why is this happening to our country? It is the million dollar question isn't it? One view that is growing stronger with me is the simple fact that majority doesn't seem to SPEAK to those that matter, other than election day. Why do we take so much time to talk to one another, but do not write to our congressman and tell them? I'm not trying to point out anyone in particular here, it's just a pattern that I'm seeing. Lots of complaints, but none of them are going to the person/persons/company/organization/etc that have control of the issue. I am guilt myself - and this is the New Year's resolution I have already adopted! And... to spread the word/encouragement. Heading off to my own blog to share...
Thanks for stirring the emotion.

Brian Sawyer said...

To answer your question, nothing bad would happen. On the contrary, separation of church and state is a founding principle.

An American Liberal said...

Two things that need to be mentioned here.

First, your views on God, morality and pretty much everything else related puts you squarely in a minority sect. I am not passing judgement, but rather giving you the gruesome unadulterated truth.

Second, the majority of us do not want any religion shoved forcibly into our lives.

Okay, as I have stated many times, I am a Christian, I attend church regularly, and my children attend private Christian schools.

Gasp?! Why would I utter such nonsense that is obviously against my own beliefs?

Because I am sick and tired of people using my religion to run amuck on my neighbors. In my lifetime I have seen pedophiles hidden behind the cloth; books banned by overzealous nut jobs (Huckleberry Finn); used to justify the forced second class citizenship of other people (prop 8); and finally, I have witnessed with tearful sorrow, as people were asked to kill themselves and their children in the name of Christ (Jim Jones).

Religion is a powerful temptation, and it needs to be savored at the family level. Not entrusted to power crazed people who savor the power of the Book, more than the understanding of the Word.

I'm sorry for my powerful rant, but my religion is my own. My family are okay breaking bread on those terms, and quite frankly so should you. Who gives a dang that they want to PC the public version of the practices? I sure don't.

Warmest Regards.
An American Liberal

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