Monday, November 17, 2008

The First Conservative Battlefront: Immigration Reform?

Of all the subjects that went completely without debate or discussion throughout the election cycle, immigration appears to be at the top of the new administration's agenda. Why exactly was it that immigration was not mentioned during the Presidential debates? Could it be that there was no need for a debate?

What exactly did the former rivals have to say to each other today? Was immigration at the top of the discussion? Most speculators are waging their bets that immigration was, in fact, a key part of those discussions. John McCain is not the President-elect. However, he does have a chance to make one of his final marks on the country. What better way to redeem his legacy than to take one of his most famous bills that went down in flames a few years ago and push it through a new, more cooperative Congress.

Immigration reform is one of the key elements to the continuing success of the Democratic party. Should the Democratic party led by their most liberal captains push through an immigration reform bill that would grant amnesty to over twelve million people, it would all but guarantee the expansion of their voter rolls. They will not close our borders. We have seen proof of that in the last several years. They will fake it as usual and state one policy (build a fence) while they undermine it with another (no money to pay for that fence).

While it is extremely unlikely that you could ever deport twelve million people, it is also criminal to allow amnesty to those who broke our laws by coming here illegally. There has to be a way to protect our country from those who cross our borders with or without the direct threat to destroy it.

I respect John McCain. I voted for John McCain. However, I hope that John McCain does not make a deal in the shadows of secrecy that will further push him away from the Republicans that he represented in this election cycle. His legacy amongst his fellow party members would be better served by opposing such legistlation rather than supporting it.

If Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, et all chose to make this one of the first of their liberal agenda items, it will be the first test of a new Republican party. It will give conservatives a view of which team players are really in their court and which ones truly are RINOs. It will give all of the new conservative movements on line their first challenge of putting their mobilizing forces to use.

Get ready....the first fight of many may be just over the horizon and it doesn't look pretty.


Retired Spook said...

Should the Democratic party led by their most liberal captains push through an immigration reform bill that would grant amnesty to over twelve million people, it would all but guarantee the expansion of their voter rolls.

But at what expense -- 10% inflation and unemployment? Obama has also promised to put Americans back to work. He can't do both, but it is going to fun to watch him try.

Anonymous said...

From everything I have read re immigration reform, both the Democats and the Republicsns want to give amnesty and driver's license to those 12 million illegals. They also want open borders so cheap labor are free to come and go as the employers need them. McCain and Obama are not very far apart on this issue. I shudder to think how this will affect the safety and security of our country.

dleichnitz said...

While it is extremely unlikely that you could ever deport twelve million people, it is also criminal to allow amnesty to those who broke our laws by coming here illegally.

Why is it "unlikely?" I mean we imported more than that through slavery, if we can bring that many in and then some why can't we deport them? Deporting Mexicans is much easier than importing Africans. At least Mexico is on the same continent.

In any case, we don't have to deport them at all. You just have to uphold the current laws and they will go back on their own. Over a million have already. Don't give them jobs, don't give them free education for their kids, don't give them social services of any kind. You do that and pretty soon they will see that there is no place for them in America and they will leave. It is deportation through attrition. Not only that but the ones who break the law on top of the illegal status should not be held in American jails but immediately deported back to the country of origin. All this is doable and if people would stop saying we can't deport them and start working on how we can-the immigration problem would be solved.

Grace Explosion said...

They don't care about us. They just want control. They'll destroy America, they will destroy Americans, to get control.

It's about control and it's about power and it's about money.

It's not about those of us who voted in this election. We were all pawns.

Obama wants to expand money to the lower class... while bringing in 12 million more in the lower class??

The federal government is so corrupt, electing a different President or Congress isn't even the solution.

Too much money, power, and control has already been centralized. America is in her death knell.

Things will not be changed or fixed from a federal level of change.

Just a realistic point of view. It looks like we keep thinking if we send the right foxes to national government, we the hens will be safe . But Capitol Hill and the White House turn men and women into the foxes who we mistakenly trust to guard the henhouse.

We need to shrink government by breaking up the United States and giving them less to rule over, imo. Restructuring is needed via constitutional state secession. My mind just cannot see any successful change via electing different people to thise positions. The States must rise up to assert State Sovereignty in general and a number must secede constitutionally. The sitch is out of control, imo. Too big.

An American Liberal said...

I disagree with the overarching context of this blog article; in so much as I think the conservatives should simply stay out of the immigration battle for the moment.
It is all about picking and choosing your battles, and this one is a terrific political trap set for the always arrogant GOP leadership. Sorry to be condescending, but it stuns me that so few understand trends. In this case, based on census trends, this fight is shaping itself to be a repeat of African American policies within the RNC.
I know, you are once again wondering why you allow a liberal on this blog, but bear with me a bit.
There is a little hidden nugget of truth in the Hispanic voting block - they are mostly a conservative bunch. Check the polls, this is your bread and butter people. They believe in lower taxes, strong military, government staying out of their business, the American dream, family oriented, and (gasp) they tend to be very religious!

While Democrats and organizations like ACORN are drooling at the numbers in this voting block, the Republicans have been fighting with each other on how best to deport them all. Look at the census data people, you could turn California red if you folks would just use your brains and a bit of compassion.

IMHO, here are the RNC talking points should be:
1) If you are here illegally to participate in more illegal actions then crack heads and send back to country of origin's jail system.
2)If they are here illegally because they were afraid for their lives, then have a heart. Help these people become American citizens and you will have a group of people who will crawl on their bellies to help our country.
3)If they are here illegally because the money is good and allows them a better life; then we need to increase penalties on the "johns" (businesses that hire them) while doing more to help increase the number of and tracking of immigrant workers.
4) Allow military service to be a path to citizenship.
5) No across the board amnesty.

That should be your policy, but do NOT do any of what I just said except to use as a guideline for future conversations.
In the meantime, what you should do is find the brightest and best Hispanics, groom them for electic offices and expand their opportunties within the RNC.

In a few years, and with a little patience you can have Hispanic leadership putting the boot to illegals instead of a bunch of rich old white dudes.... It's all in the packaging people.

An American Liberal

dleichnitz said...

American Liberal, the military is already a path to citizenship! I have a friend who is a citizen because she joined the military.

Next, people can apply for political asylum if their lives are in jeopardy. So you are not really talking about anything new. Those things are already in place and are already done!

The rest of it is exactly what conservatives have been talking about penalizing employers (in fact, I even said in my last post about not giving them employment here)deport the criminals instead of jailing them here, (also in my last post)and no amnesty. So remind me again exactly what part of your plan is liberal? Because I'm not seeing it!

Stacy said...

It is not uncaring in the least to what our borders secure. That is what most conservative want. Reagan tried to plug the hole by granting amnesty once. If we continue down this path, we will be granting amnesty again in another twenty years. Most legal immigrants do not support amnesty. Conservatives are not telling people not to come. We just want you to come legally.
What if the roles were reversed, do you really think Canada or Mexico would put up with our invading their countries one at a time?

Clay Bowler said...

I am concerned that McCain is meeting with Obama and acting unified; after all, John McCain has never met a Democrat he didn't like. He is more than willing to cross party lines. Now more than ever, it might be at the extreme cost of conservatives.

jen said...

Our chances of deporting illegal aliens working in our country have amost become a moot point. Once Obama became President-Elect, Nancy Pelosi gave the order for ICE to cease and desist raiding companies and deporting illegal workers. The head of ICE resigned and I imagine will be replaced by a more congenial and sympathetic liberal staff who will be sitting on their thumbs and collecting their salaries for doing what they are so good at: nothing.

An American Liberal said...

I love you, but that post and your blog thread are both a bit of an over reaction. Set up a commune like the Quakers have in PA.. No reason to secede from the union.

Looks like you read the word liberal and failed to understand the content of the post. Just because the person is a liberal or a conservative doesn't preclude that person from having an idea worth listening to.

I understand your comments, but forgive me for quoting Clinton but: "its the economy stupid." (Please don't take that as a slight toward you or the fine people who post here in any way.)

The economy is still tanking, why in the heck do the Republicans even care about this?!
Fiscal conservatives are needed right now (real fiscal conservatives mind you), and the Republican party have in their toolbox a number of people to help Obama fix the economy. The public is looking for answers and Republicans talking about immigration seems to play into the Democratic rhetoric that the RNC is basically a club for racist rich old white men.

Seriously, let this battle slide and let the Democrats slice their own throats. Engage them, and risk alienating another powerful voting block.

Get back to doing what Republicans are supposed to be good at, responsible spending of our taxpayer money.

Just my two cents is all.

Take care!
An American Liberal

dleichnitz said...

I did listen to the content of your post, did I not answer it point for point? The thing I was pointing out was two things are already part of the immigration law so there is no need to create such laws and the rest of it is exactly what conservatives have been talking about all along, yet everything you have talked about is exactly what your fellow liberals are dead set against. You can do the most good by getting other liberals to come to your point of view, because you are already preaching to the choir here. And I would like to point out that I never said that they weren't good ideas, they are excellent ones, just not liberal ones. LOL

An American Liberal said...

Again you missed the point. Those were identified as good talking points, not action items.

From an action item standpoint I strongly suggest that you guys let this battle pass and open up opportunities within the RNC for latinos. In the long run, that would do more for the party than trying to engage this issue at this point in time. Party is currently in chaos, blah blah blah.... :-)

As to talking to my liberal friends, we already agree with everyone of those bullet points. We would like to make these options accessible (the red tape is absurd), and streamline the process for acceptance into this country and prosecution in cases of abuse.

The hard line conservatives want to build a wall, and conduct armed raids on businesses in front of cameras (who thought that was a good idea?!).
Others want to form a militia and roam around the desert "tracking" illegals.
The hard line liberals want to let them come and go as they please.

All three of those "solutions" are foolish in the sense that far better options are available imho.

An American Liberal

dleichnitz said...

American Liberal, you say to let it drop. That it is not the right time, you sound like Kennedy telling King that it wasn't the right time for Blacks to get the vote. We can't wait on some opportune time in the future. The effects are happening now. I live in the heart of ILLEGAL USA, Los Angeles, California. So I can't wait because it is effecting me today.

I get Medi-Cal because I have pretty bad epilepsy, the after effects can last from a couple days to up to six months (one time I hurt my arm so bad I couldn't fully raise it for six months.) so I recently got a letter saying needed to prove my citizenship to continue receiving it. No problem. My problem came said if I was illegal this didn't apply to me and I didn't have to do anything! Excuse me, I have to prove my citizenship but they don't! The same with my son. So they were trying to penalize citizens and reward illegals!

That is just one minor example, the point is this, when do we start talking about immigration-when it reaches 20 million, when more jobs are given to those who are willing to work below the radar, when the economy completely collapses? Do we do it when Social Security is totally bankrupt? Or maybe when none of our children can attend school because it is overrun by those in the country illegally and their children? (Don't get me wrong, their children are very much the victims in this too. I have compassion for the kids, not so much for the adults.) No, I am not going to wait until the other side is willing to talk about it. I am not going to wait until we can get enough Hispanics in the GOP before speaking out about it. Because the effects are not waiting for the future so why should I?

An American Liberal said...

You are perfectly willing to have your opinion on the matter, and that, I respect. I still believe that if Republicans pushed this point now, their ability to enact positive changes in the future will be even more diminished.

Warmest Regards,
An American Liberal

dleichnitz said...

Well American Liberal, we will agree to disagree. You are just more of an optimist than me. You believe we can deal with this in the future, I believe we won't have a future if we don't deal with it now.

Take care and God bless you.

StopIllegalImmigrationNOW said...

So what if we can't deport 12 million people all at once. When you go fishing, you don't try to catch every fish in the lake. Deport whenever and wherever an illegal has any interaction with law enforcement, whether due to homicide, child molestation, or spitting on the sidewalk.

Anonymous said...

Preach on StopIllegalImmigration! It is Blacks that are disproportionately affected by this. It is our schools they are overcrowding, not the rich, suburban schools! It is our jobs they are taking, not the high paid executives jobs. It is our apartment buildings that they are overcrowded with them, it is not the cul-de-sacs in the high end neighborhoods. So I resent people who don't have to deal with the effects of it, to tell me to wait! I am not waiting! They won't be telling me to wait when the effects come to their neighborhoods!

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